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This episode of The Thinking Practitioner Podcast pays tribute to the life and legacy of Erik Dalton, a pioneering figure in the massage and manual therapy field who recently passed away. Through conversations with some of those who knew him best, we gain insight into Dalton's unique contributions, innovative approaches, and profound impact on the profession.

Key Topics:

  • Introduction and overview of Dalton's background and influence (0:00 - 5:00)
  • Reflections from Tom Myers, author of Anatomy Trains (5:00 - 11:40) 
    Insights from James Waslaski, international lecturer and author (11:40 - 15:00)
  • Memories shared by Diane Matkowski, the "Massage Mentor" (15:00 - 19:30)
  • Perspective from Eric Brown, consultant for Dalton's business (19:30 - 24:00)
  • Stories and tributes from Jim Asher, Dalton's Rolfing teacher (24:00 - 29:00)
  • Personal accounts from Tammy McCue, senior educator for Dalton's work (29:00 - 34:00)
  • Reflections from Art Riggs, bodyworker and teacher (34:00 - 40:00)
  • Insights from Paul Kelly, longtime collaborator with Dalton (40:00 - 50:00)
  • Closing thoughts and information about the podcast's sponsors (50:00 - 57:00)

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(The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

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The Thinking Practitioner Podcast:


Episode 137: Remembering Erik Dalton (with Tom Myers, Art Riggs, & More) 

Whitney Lowe  

Welcome to the Thinking Practitioner podcast, 

 

Til Luchau  

a podcast where we dig into the fascinating issues, conditions and quandaries in the massage and manual therapy world today. 

 

Whitney Lowe  

I'm Whitney Lowe 

 

Til Luchau  

and I'm Til Luchau.  Welcome to the Thinking Practitioner Books of Discovery has been part of the massage therapy and bodywork world for over 25 years. Nearly 3000 schools are on the globe teach with their textbooks, e textbooks and digital resources. Books of Discovery likes to say "learning adventures start here". They find that same spirit here on the Thinking Practitioner podcast, and they're proud to support our work, knowing we share the mission to bring the massage and bodywork community thought provoking and enlivening content that advances our profession and instructors of manual therapy. Education programs can request complimentary copies of Books of Discovery textbooks to review for use in their programs. So please reach out to booksodiscovery.com

 

Whitney Lowe  

and listeners can explore their collection of learning resources for anatomy, pathology, kinesiology, physiology, ethics and business mastery at booksodiscovery.com where Thinking Practitioner listeners can save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout. All right, good day, sir. How are you?

 

Til Luchau  

good day? I'm okay. It's it's a sad topic. We're talking about today. We're giving some honor and tribute and love in the direction of Erik Dalton, who passed away recently.

 

Whitney Lowe  

Erik was certainly an inspiring character and a big, big loss, I think, for our massage and bodywork community is influenced and inspired so many people. So, yeah, this is, this is a big loss. This big loss for us. If

 

Til Luchau  

you, I guess I should say, if you somehow don't know, Erik Dalton, he was Rolfer, originally a musician I don't know about originally, early in his days, a musician with Southland, and they played a lot tourist concerts in the 70s. There's probably a much deeper musical history that I'm not aware of for Erik and then trained with Ida Rolf, and we actually going to have a few conversations with people from those days, I got to talk to Jim Asher, his Rolfing teacher, about training Erik, and we're going to play that recording. So Erik trained as a Rolfer, and then went on to start the Freedom from Pain Institute, which taught continuing education courses. And arguably, I don't know what you think Whitney, I think it's probably the biggest or broadest reach of the people in this field, in our manual therapy and massage field specific niche here, I think Erik was probably the biggest

 

Whitney Lowe  

I think that's, yeah, that's true. And you'll see in the in the interview with Eric Brown, he mentions that Erik Dalton had a very keen awareness of both innovation, but also marketing. And I think he was a master of those things for sure. So knew and knew how to do that, probably also strongly influenced by his music, days of promotions and all that kind of stuff that has to go along with that. So yes,

 

Til Luchau  

yeah, and you will want to say a lot more. We'll let our guests speak for themselves, but just from my side, I'm going to echo a lot of what you're going to hear in the tributes. He was always very supportive of what I was up to, and I I remember running into him at an AMTA conference, first time I'd met him in person, and said, Erik, I'm so glad to meet you. But I gotta say, I don't I read your stuff, and I don't even know why I try to do mine, because you're always a few steps ahead, and there's always prettier and longer and deeper and all that kind of stuff. And I saw him blush. He honestly, he could be really self deprecating and really humble, but he actually took that in, I think, yeah, and shifted right then and there.

 

Whitney Lowe  

Yeah, and I think I mentioned this in one of the other discussions with some of the guests too. He was just both incredibly generous, but also, you know, really trying to help everybody else push the envelope forward. I mean, I routinely got messages from him about the articles that I was posting and writing about. and, oh, that's a good one there and then we would question things, and we banter back and forth about stuff. And so, you know, I really appreciated the the ability and the desire that he had to ask questions deeply and inquire about things, but he also just, you know, he gave a lot of kudos to other people doing really good things too.

 

Til Luchau  

He really did and a voracious learner. When I was experimenting way before online courses, I was experimenting with telecourse courses, where I would have teachers come and teach a course on the telephone. And I didn't know this, but Erik, I guess, ordered the recordings of the course and listened to him while he was on his treadmill. Was on his treadmill, he said, and then called me up and wanted to laugh about some of like, the interruption somebody called in on the wrong conference call and was trying to figure out what we're talking about. I thought that was hilarious. And he was just, again, a voracious learner and very engaged with everybody's material,

 

Whitney Lowe  

right? It, yeah.

 

Til Luchau  

Okay, all right, let's, let's hear from our guests,

 

Whitney Lowe  

yeah. Let's do Yeah.

 

Tom Myers  

I am, Tom Myers. I am the author of Anatomy Trains, and I am Eric Dalton's little brother. 

 

Til Luchau  

Erik Dalton's little brother? How many little brothers does he have? I thought that's what I was.

 

Tom Myers  

I thought that's what I was, we can it's like children in succession finding out that the other one was the favorite, but that's what we called each other for a long time, because we were always on the bustings of the AMTA conferences in those early days, when that was how you got yourself out in amongst those people. And Erik was doing that. And it always surprises me how many of the people who have influence went through the hands of Ida Rolf, went through the ideas of Ida Rolf and came out. Erik was one of those, and I wish I knew more about his musical history with the Flying Burrito Brothers, which, for those of us who reached back

 

Til Luchau  

in wind, yeah, that's right, yeah,

 

Tom Myers  

break off from various other formations that happened in those days. That was great, but he took, he took that music into his work, and there was always that snap of the snare drum to him. I do have one iconic moment that is going to sound bad, but I did one of those workshops in Costa Rica at Pura  Vida with him, and when he was on stage, and he could have somebody's head in his hand, and then he needs to make a point on the board, and he would just drop the person's head, go make the point on the board and come back it was handling that. If, if I had handled somebody that way, I would feel quite badly, or I would feel that I was not modeling things very well, but he had that drummer's flair that he could get away with but, you know, he had the rhythm, and so it wasn't unrhythmic, the way that he would do it.

 

Til Luchau  

That's true. He also had that gift of rapport, where you just get connected to people really easily. I remember calling him about something, and he picked up, and we talked for a little while, and then he says, Okay, I need to get back to my client. They're lying here on my table, so he like, picked up in the session, and this talking at me, but I'm sure just having been on myself, having been on his table, I around him that just flowed in and out of whatever direction he was having anyway.

 

Tom Myers  

Yes, he does well, it's interesting how people revert to what got them in first and his. I don't know if it got him in first, but he was very strongly influenced by chiropractic. It was the myoskeletal alignment. 

 

Til Luchau  

I talked to Jim Asher yesterday, yes, told me a couple of stories about them crashing chiropractic trainings, basically showing up and say, Yeah, we were qualified and not and, but not and crazy, like upside down adjustments and all kinds of stuff. But anyway, I digress. You were gonna say something about chiropractic for him.

 

Tom Myers  

Well, I think he always had that in him, and his approach to the structural idea was colored by the chiropractic vocabulary, the chiropractic feel. And my own motivation into this was being the awkward kid, and so my thrust now, at the end of my career, is, how do we get good physical education for everybody, and not just the people who are good at sports and developmental movement sequences and things like that, but I have definitely from I'm interested in all kinds of things, but that's been okay, that's been the driving. The thing that is that wounded you in the first place is that thing that rings you, and I don't know, I don't know what that was. In Erik's case, he was, he didn't seem like a very wounded person. He just seemed like a very happy person. Was so, too bad what happened to Terry, with him and his wife,

 

Til Luchau  

who passed away a couple of years where he did, yeah, yes,

 

Tom Myers  

and I think that really hit him hard. And as somebody who contemplates my own end, I'm only six years behind him, so the dying of a heart attack in a swimming pool. I could, there's, there's worse ways of going in. I've been since,  I learned of his passing just yesterday, was it or the day before? But anyway, um, been thinking about it. We all think we're going to die of a malingering disease. Yes, where we get to lie? In the bed and have our scenes of forgiveness and swearing on dying love and all of that kind of thing and but Erik was pretty full throttle, so

 

Til Luchau  

he died with his fins on.

 

Tom Myers  

He died with fins on.  I've done spin turns in that pool we went to I'll finish up with this. I, when I had done another workshop with Ben Benjamin down at in Costa Rica, went afterwards to his place where he has that pool in Portos cow San, something to Portos cow and about 3000 feet up in Costa Rica, which is very pleasant. The temperature is perfect, the soil. You just drop anything in it and it grows. And they very much wanted my, then wife and me to come down and be part of that community, which we never did. It was amazing to be down there. So I've I've done fin turns in that pool, and I know he loved that. He built that whole place, a whole lot 

 

Til Luchau  

He did. He did well, and he loved a bunch of his little brothers, I guess, was that actually art, I thought the other person I talked to was Art Riggs, and he used the same term. 

 

Tom Myers  

 He brought a lot of us along, and he was very, you know, uncompetitive and generous in that way. Thank you for doing this to remember him. I am so happy to send him on his way with a very full heart and best wishes for his next life.

 

Til Luchau  

Yeah, so I'm glad you were able to take the time. Yeah. Thank you. Tom

 

Tom Myers  

Thank you Til.  Take care. Bye Erik, 

 

Til Luchau  

Bye Erik.

 

James Waslawski  

Yes. Whitney, I'm James Waslowski. I'm an author and international lecturer. I teach about 45 seminars a year across the globe. I get the opportunity to teach PT, Chiro, athletic training,  osteopath. My favorite is the massage world, and I'm also a certified personal trainer with the National Academy of Sports Medicine. 

 

Whitney Lowe  

Wonderful. Well, thanks so much for participating in this with us today.James and I know you and Erik, were really quite close, and I would just want to, you know, we're trying to just, you know, get some insights into some of the different aspects about him. So can you tell me a little bit about what your your senses of what really exemplifies the unique value and things that he brought to our profession?

 

James Waslawski  

Well, when you met Erik in 1998 at the New England Regional Conference, he was a Rolfer. It was his first conference ever. And immediately, when we met, we connected from an energetic we just we just connected. We felt like we'd been friends forever. Never met. And what Erik brought to the table for me after we met, we ended up  co teaching and in Costa Rica three times, and co teaching on the cruise ships. And when what Erik said to me goes, when you're that together, that many times, dinners, lunches, breakfasts, camaraderie, friendships. We built a really deep bond. But Erik for me, if I could put my name on one mentor, and I met a lot, I mentioned a lot of people in my seminars, but Erik took me under his wing. As far as writing, he would review all my articles, referencing giving credit to other publishers, other speakers. He was really a team player, and yet he was a pioneer and a leader, and so much the evolution of manual therapy. So I had the honor and the privilege to spend, you know, 27 years with a man that truly was an icon to our profession, truly respects all of us and brought and he was really such a team player. What an honor and a privilege to meet that man.

 

Whitney Lowe  

Yeah, absolutely indeed. I know you all share a lot of discussions and talk back and forth about, you know, technique, approaches and things like that. Can you share a little bit about how you felt what he did or the things that he shared with you? Like, how did that impact you personally and shape some of your perspective in the work that you do?

 

James Waslawski  

Well, Whitney, just like you influenced me on assessment, clinical reasoning and special tests, Erik, really, I didn't know very I knew very little about spinal biomechanics. I didn't know about joint function, articular ligament function. Really, when friend and I first took Erik's class, and this was back in probably 99 we said he's probably the most, one of the most brilliant educators we've ever seen in our life. We were blown away. I think I knew like 20% of what he was talking about when we first met, and then I ended up teaching many, many, many years and spending many years with him. But I think he really made me think out of the box, but he also made me think about integrated manual therapy, meaning I wasn't looking from the same lens he was looking at. So he would always say to me, you know, respect everybody and look, but the spinal biomechanics and the joint function and all that things, I think I could have gone to chiropractor school for 20 years and never learned what I learned from that man. He really pioneered that scope of how we're affecting joint function. Yeah, absolutely.

 

Whitney Lowe  

Really, and I know you too, had a relationship outside of the professional work that you did too, you know, I know you talk a lot about the fact that he was in touch with you frequently, and sharing a lot of other things outside of his professional life. So what are some of the things that you feel like helped shaped you, or, you know, were really important things about the that other relationship and the time that you spent with him,

 

James Waslawski  

you know, two things that Erik Dalton and I really realized that our wives were the ones that really built our career. When Erik started, he was in the garage with eight people, and Terry would make sandwiches, and I remember I didn't even have a VHS out or anything like that. When I met Fran and we talked a lot about giving respect to our staff, we talked a lot about, if it wasn't for our wives, we would have never, ever ended up where we were in this profession. And I think the most touching thing with Erik is we met at every conference, every year since I met him in 90, we would spend time together, either in his room, talking or talking on the beach, or we would spend time, you know, at dinner. And we would talk about life experience, life goals. And one of the things that I really touches my heart is when I went through a difficult time with cancer, throat cancer I had, and then I had a hip replacement. Erik would be the one. Every third day I would get a text. He would go, Jim, praying for you, hope you're doing okay. Love Your Body if you I'm here for you if you need me, and Erik was always that person who would really check up on me. So I would say I felt like he was a brother, a best friend, a mentor, a colleague. I don't think I've ever felt that close to anybody in my entire life, and it's going to be really hard to know that he's gone, but it's also going to be touching to know that he probably ended his life at the end doing what he loved, drumming and doing education. He just finished the Costa Rica retreat. You know, he's walking his dog. He was swimming. And if ever there was a person that since living my life, my career, my ethics, my values, my integrity and my humility, that man is a true legend, and his word, his thoughts and his memories will carry on forever.

 

Whitney Lowe  

Yeah, I mean of people that you can say that really lived life to the fullest and really, really took it for all that was there for he certainly did exemplify that and his generosity in sharing those things and sharing different things that he was exploring, learning and doing things that's just you don't see that a lot, and any other thoughts and things that you'd like to leave us with in

 

James Waslawski  

say that I feel a great honor the profession will forever grow. I think if anybody changed the future of manual medicine and launched manual therapy to a world that we never maybe some of us did, never imagine it was Erik, and I know that all of us as friends and mentors and colleagues will carry on his legend and his messages, but I want to say I really hope he rests in peace, and I know that that he lived a full life, and I will always look up to him and carry all of those memories of my heart. God bless Erik.

 

Whitney Lowe  

Yeah, wonderful James. Well, thank you so much for your thoughts and for sharing those insights into into him. He was certainly a person that touched so many, so many people in our in our field, and he thanks for sharing some of those personal feelings and things about him as well here today,

 

James Waslawski  

thanks for the opportunity. Whitney, you have a great day. Okay, thank you. 

 

Diane Matkowski  

Hello, everyone. My name is Diane Matkowski, aka The Massage Mentor, the owner of Freedom Massage in the Philadelphia area. And I actually also got to be the social media expert for Eric Dalton when he took trips to Costa Rica, Ireland, and at his Oklahoma City events. 

 

Til Luchau  

You sure did. You spent some time with him, and I'm glad you could take the time to tell us a little story or something about him. Thanks. TWhat would you want to remember him with? What do you want to sharewith us? 

 

Diane Matkowski  

I mean, I was really lucky because, you know, I got to go for a lot of walks for every event at like 530-6 in the morning, I would get a text from him and say, "Let's go. okay, we're going for our walk". And our walks became kind of infamous. I mean, it was in almost a little embarrassing. Sometimes there was people taking pictures on our walks, and we just, we talked about everything. He was a very deep man. He had a lot of insight on a lot of things, and he had a lot of experiences, which always hold dear to my heart. I think, though, one of the stories that I always wanted him to tell and and maybe he's told it, and maybe I'll tell it different, and I if it's not 100% as he told it, forgive me, Erik, I think he would. But I remember one of our first walks, i knew that he was in the Flying Burrito Brothers, but I didn't realize that that band opened for Grateful Dead, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin. He got around. I didn't. I had no idea. And so we were talking, and he said we were talking about the beginning of his bodywork days, and he was with the band in the back of a checkered limousine. They decided to get a checkered limousine because they were doing some big music festivals, so they decided to go all out. So there's Erik and the Flying Burrito Brothers in this checkered limousine, you know, hanging out. And they pull up to the venue, and there's this crazy lady with long hair singing one of the Flying Burrito Brothers songs at the top of her lungs, dancing around. And Erik was, "what the hell is that"? you know? And when he got out of the limo much to his surprise and everyone else's it was Janice Joplin rocking out on his song, rocking out on his song. And the cool part of the story isn't just that, but it was that he and Janice Joplin's drummer got talking because Erik was a drummer, and he was telling him about this amazing lady named Ida Rolf who was helping him with, you know, some some muscle aches, and he's like, this lady has me drumming better than I've ever drummed before. And and Erik was fascinated by that, and so he said, "You know, I gotta find this Ida Rolf lady", you know? And then really, the rest is kind of history.

 

Til Luchau  

 We got to talk to Jim Asher, who was his teacher at the Rolf Institute, and hung out with him. They did some fun stuff for a while. That's great to see that. Just get the snapshot of that moment of his transition from that world into the bodywork world. And yeah, he had all kinds of stories and knew all kinds of people. I remember he came and said, Hey, would you write a chapter for my Dynamic Body book? I said, Sure, I want to write it about John Wayne and Marilyn Monroe and how they walk different. And he says, Okay, that's great, because I used to live in Marilyn Monroe's apartment, and I got a story for you. So I guess you lived in like, the same LA apartment that Marilyn Monroe had lived in. Just a super, super humble dude. He was just very humble and very gracious, super supportive, super generous. I mean, I really can't say enough things about Erik, and I can't say enough things for what he brought to my life, and hell, he helped me on my journey. Just always miss the guy. I always love him and always sing his praises. That's, I think there's a bunch of us that could say that, and that's it's nice to be able to talk to you and hear your stories and share this moment,

 

Diane Matkowski  

He was a smart guy. I have a little library of books that he has sent me through the years, and I cherish them. And I always, you know, I cherished them before he passed, I've just, like you said, I've learned so much from him. He doesn't, it takes a little while to open up a man when he does. It's a lot of fun. And like I said, he was just a really deep, caring, introspective, loving person, at least at the you know, I've got to spend the last part of his life with him, and I just feel so honored to have had that, to have that peace with him.

 

Til Luchau  

Thanks for getting together with me, sharing your story. Hope your voice gets better soon.

 

Diane Matkowski  

Yeah, I got a little like coarseness going on, but I wouldn't miss this any time with you til for the world. So thank you for being patient as I got my voice back. And it's always great to see you. You're looking as handsome and dashing as ever.

 

Til Luchau  

Same to you. 

 

Eric Brown  

My name is Eric Brown, and I am a Canadian massage therapist that graduated in the 1980s and just to give some context for some of the conversation we might have, our training there is a little bit different in that we're a little bit like physiotherapists, where we do soft tissue mobilization, but we also do orthopedic assessment, joint mobilization, hydrotherapy, rehab, exercise and and modalities like ultrasound, laser muscles and that kind of stuff. So that's sort of the context for me as a practitioner and and now doing multimedia textbooks for the massage profession through Massage Mastery online, yeah, a little bit about my background. Yeah, I had done some consulting with Erik on and off through the years for his business, and then in 2017 I took on a bigger role, basically came on to as a consultant for business development and strategy. And so we got all his stuff online, all his material, it had been homesteaded to that point online. It's online courses, so he could reach a larger international audience.

 

Whitney Lowe  

Tell me a little bit about you know you had. Really interesting. And, you know, very diverse business background to bring into this, and especially, you know, with your being an innovate like you said this, this was interesting to watch. You know, you were one of the first people in all of these different areas, with the the online stuff, the, you know, I remember the early on podcast that you all were doing many, many years ago, and everything. So how did that work? Sort of interface with what you were doing with Erik. Because a lot of people don't know you're kind of one of the behind the scenes people that keeps the whole system going there with the Dalton Myoskeletal work,

 

Eric Brown  

that's, that's in nutshell, we just sort of keep the wheels rolling. Yeah, yeah. So, so for Erik, Erik is a unicorn in the profession. And I think one thing that characterizes Erik is innovation. He was always looking for ways to expand, improve, change, the face of bodywork, very research focused. Everything, everything he did had to be a research based so. So he was always looking for new ways to help people get free from pain. Yeah. So he introduced, you know, some really interesting ideas to the profession that the profession here in the United States are not used to, like the nerve mobilization, for example, and joint mobilization, things that we don't normally use in practice here in the US. And he made it very accessible for people. He introduced it in a way that any massage therapist could do,

 

Whitney Lowe  

Yeah, tell me a little bit about your work with him doing, like, the social media and things like that. What? How did that sort of evolve? Like he was just tremendously prolific in putting out, you know, articles and videos and things like that, and tell us a little bit about, you know, how that worked with your experience with him.

 

Eric Brown  

So he was always, you know, aware of the importance of marketing, promotion, and entertainment, and sort of incorporated all of that into his business and in his events too. His events were not just a dry, boring workshop. He really felt that they had to be entertaining and engaging to the participants if they were going to absorb this complex material. So his Oklahoma City workshops, for example, were more like a Woodstock event, than a typical workshop, you know, really big on building community. So that background, I think, sort of informed his approach to his bodywork business, both his personal practice and, you know, myoskeletal alignment techniques, yeah. So he was always he recognized the importance of getting out in front of people and and doing this in a whole variety of ways. He wasn't afraid to invest in marketing. So he invested heavily in, you know, reaching out to people through all kinds of vehicles, including social media. And, you know, there's a famous business management guru named Peter Drucker, who said, you know, that the two main functions of any business are innovation and marketing. You know, all the rest are costs. And Erik really, even though he didn't know Peter Drucker wasn't familiar with him at all, those are the two things he focused on, were innovation in his work and marketing. 

 

Whitney Lowe  

Yeah, Eric, tell me. About maybe something where you know an example of how he impacted you personally in your interactions and work with him, or anything else there that you would like to share about him?

 

Eric Brown  

Yeah, that's interesting, interesting question for me. I think, you know, coming from the background that I did, which was rehab focused, you know, as a massage therapist, and very orthopedic focused. You know, very, very much on, on injury rehab. Eric came to the work with a very holistic approach. And I know you're being on orthopedic assessment too, but he sort of poo pooed orthopedic assessment. You know for him, things like back issues and neck issues in particular, were very complex problems. That, you know, we really couldn't find a specific cause to and that the causes were more needed a more holistic approach. He needed to look at the whole body. Yeah, his approach to assessment was unique in that his treatment was as much about assessment as treatment. So although he was familiar with orthopedic assessment and did use those tools, you know, a lot of the assessment came through the actual work itself, you know. So he called it the art of MAT asymmetries, looking at restrictions and movement and looking at tissue texture abnormalities, you know, that was his acronym. And those are things that you observe, or, you know, absorb as you're actually doing your hands on work. I think that's something that really resonates with therapists. Yeah, so I think that that approach, that sort of holistic approach, is very different than the way I was trained, and makes it unique and makes it very accessible for massage therapists. 

 

Whitney Lowe  

Yeah,wonderful. Well, Eric, thanks so much for taking a few moments to share some some thoughts and reflections on his tremendously impactful life work. There anything else that you would want to just leave with, with everyone on thoughts about Erik and his impact on the world. Before we wrap up,

 

Eric Brown  

I'll just, I'll just mention one thing which, which others may have addressed too, that you've interviewed, and he's always referred to his work as brain-based body work, and for so for Erik, again, another, another unique thing about him that made him a unicorn in this profession, is that it wasn't about the muscles. He always called muscles as being dumb. Muscles are dumb. For him, it was all about how the nervous system controlled the structure and how the nervous system processed and interpreted pain. So that brain based approach to body work, I think, is another unique aspect of Erik's work, and I'm not sure that it gets enough attention. 

 

Whitney Lowe  

yeah, absolutely. Well, Eric, thank you so much for taking some time to reflect on some of those things and sharing your your thoughts and perceptions on on Erik's tremendously impactful work. And we all certainly feel this is going to be a big loss for our profession, and hopefully we can keep a lot of that spirit alive and keep it going everywhere.

 

Eric Brown  

So thank you very much for having me and thankful that you're taking this time to celebrate Erik's life and legacy. Thank you very much. All right, good. Thanks,

 

Jim Asher  

This is Jim Asher, and I'd studied  Rolfing with Ida Rolf and started teaching for and I know Erik, because he wound up he wanted to be a Rolfer, so he took one of the levels with me. I think it was a level three or level two. So he went up staying in our apartment for six weeks or seven weeks. So, you know, we got to know each other.

 

Til Luchau  

And then he was, he was a student in your class. 

 

Jim Asher  

Erik was, yeah, Erik was a student in right. He was studying Rolfing first then he got interested in the biomechanics. And we both took a classwith Philip Greenman. Oh, yeah. He called up Michigan State and found out their courses, and he went through all five courses with Philip Greenman at Michigan State. Yeah, and Erik here, you're so lovable that he started here. I didn't talk of Dr Greenman, months, I was afraid. I don't know so, but Erik was "hey, this is great stuff. Dr Greenman, I love it, you know, I'm so glad you're teaching this". You know, Erik, he's just very if you see, but with... That's right. So he and Greenman hit it off, and Greenman thought they were best buddies. There was, well, he kept taking the Greenman classes and have lunch with him, you know, and tell my great, yeah. 

 

Til Luchau  

And deep into that, yep. 

 

Jim Asher  

He just was so lovable. You know, no one ever asked him for credentials or anything. And he was good. He had great hands, you know, I mean, Greenman got the buddies, and he never once they see you. I learned a few Rolfing techniques to your try that he didn't say hewas a Rolfer, he said he learned a few of the techniques. You know, that's funny. So that was it. He said, Greenman, sounds like I've heard good stuff about it. And they chat, chat about something else. And remember, another class was in Tucson, and I flew down for it. And, yeah, a really good book, and so forth. But Erik was down there, and he just, and then I took one of his class, you know, he did a class for his stuff. You know, he put together his own ideas in a class, yeah? And I took one of them. It was a large class up here in Denver, and he did a great job. I was like, wow, you know, anything you

 

Til Luchau  

took one of Eric's classes in Denver, yeah, didn't realize that that's great, yeah. 

 

Jim Asher  

And I liked it. I was like, Okay, this is good stuff, you know. And by that time, I think he had two levels, you know, I can't remember, to be honest, and so we kept up occasionally. I went out there, maybe one more time. And then, you know, by that time, Erik, at some point, he was like a rock star, you know, everybody loved him. And so it's hard to spend much time with him without, like, you know, a bunch of people surrounded him, you know, so but, you know, we kept up on the phone a little bit, and then, like I said, met his wife. When I first met him, he was dating two girls. I mean, not when I first met him, he's taking a class. And he said, Well, he described two of them. One of them would cut hair, the other one had a master's in business, and he's describing them both, and I like them both. And I said, Well, is this other girl for you? He said, Why you say that? I suppose she runs a radio station. She got a master's degree. And I said, nothing against people cut hair, but you know that girl sounds to me. She sounds boring. She's pretty, but boring. I said, you're not a you won't have stay with her. You don't like boring people. I said, you might like her because she's pretty, but after two days, you'll drop her. And he did. He started dating the other girl. They had the master's degree and ran a radio station or a TV station. Then they moved in together, and she already had a kid, and that was fine with him. And then they just stayed together. And he could, you know, he picked up stuff extremely fast. And, you know, Erik had that southern accent, that good old boy he talk, but inside was this really smart guy, you know, he was very brainy, super so he just didn't talk. He just didn't talk brainy talk. And, I mean, and he wasn't a braggart. He just would say, let me try that on your a I think I could help you with that. You know, I remember a story that you told me about the two of you. Maybe it's one of those same trainings, but basically crashing the party and learning a inverted chiropractic technique. And Erik was your partner. and then after the class, he told you about his neck history. Yeah, that's right, I forgot about that. We are doing this. It was a kind of a radical adjustment. You had one hand under the chin. You're supposed to have a narrow table. It was supposed to be a slight slant upward,  maybe 30 degrees or something. And you had one hand. You had. You had one hand under the occiput, but the other hand under the fist, and your whole body lurched forward. It wasn't like you just did with your arms. Your whole body would lurch upward, and so you would pull the whole person, their whole body would slide on the table and but they were designed to adjust the neck, and I tried a couple times. My clients didn't like it because I wasn't good at it. And so I was like, Man, I could, I know, I was afraid to do it. I was afraid to make, you know, do it wrong or something. So I called Erik, and said "I'm struggling," he said, oh, man, my clients are loving it okay, because he got it down real quick, and he did it right. And, you know, after a year or two, or he moved on to some other technique, efforacum, I don't know the right word, but you know, he was, you know, that was Erik. He was always learning new stuff and but he was really a smart guy. You kind of talk like a country boy sometimes, you know, a good old boy, but inside is a super smart person. I mean, he just didn't try to bowl you over with his intellect, you know, or vocabulary or anything. Yeah, that's right. And he had the hands of a genius. 

 

Til Luchau  

He had excellent hands. I was I got to be a model a few times. And you know, you you have some stories there that probably a lot of us don't know because you've known him so long, and we're right there at the formative parts of his bodywork career. So thanks for taking the time Jim to talk to us about it. Sure we're gonna, we're gonna miss him. I'm glad we got to capture your memories of him too. 

 

Jim Asher  

Yeah, he was a wonderful man and person, just uh. He was friends. Everybody would think of like, I mean, he was your friend. It was like a buddy. I mean, like he's Erik was just sort of instantly, he just loved people. He's really a people person. Well, thanks. So, yeah, good to hear from you Til.

 

Tammy Mccue  

Hi Whitney, I'm Tammy Mccue. I'm a senior educator for Erik Dalton. Today, I feel like Tammy has too many tears Mccue, yeah, apologize right off the bat, if eyes are puffy andswollen, they've been draining since Saturday. Yes, I teach classes for Erik Dalton. I teach sold out classes all around the country, primarily in Florida and New York, where the two states that I go back and forth and live at. Yeah, and I teach at the World Massage Festival. Erik Dalton was inducted in 2008 into the Massage Therapy Hall of Fame, and last year, in 2024 I had the great honor to follow in his footsteps, and I was inducted into the Massage Therapy Hall of Fame there.

 

Whitney Lowe  

Tammy, how long have you been teaching with Erik?

 

Speaker 1  

2019? Is when I was asked to step up and teach for Erik, but I've been a teaching assistant since probably 2016

 

Whitney Lowe  

Okay, yeah, so quite a while you've been working with him. Can you sort of tell us a story maybe that exemplifies the unique value of what Eric brought to our work. He influenced so many people in so many different ways, and we're just looking for some different perspectives. So from you, what can you tell us? Maybe a story or something that really exemplifies his unique contributions?

 

Tammy Mccue  

There's so many, but what Erik did was he, he took his psychology degree and his Rolfing degree and his osteopathy degree, and he morphed it into myoskeletal alignment techniques. And when I first started following him, it was probably about over 20 years ago. I remember when I first met my husband when he was my boyfriend. He would say, Who's that guy on your phone? Like, not a boyfriend, it's Erik Dalton. And I was just following Erik, because in physical therapy, he was extremely effective. So I had doctors that would come to me, and then the doctors would be sending me specifically their clients. So I had a lot of specific requests, even back in physical therapy. So I did get my massage degree, and that's when I started following Erik. And 2014 I went to Costa Rica, and I bought myself right in the front of the room, right in front of the man, the myth, the legend. And first thing I did was I raised my hand as a physical therapist and athletic trainer, and I said, How is this in the scope of our practice? It's amazing. I mean, you've got me hook, line and sinker, but how is this in the scope of my practice now as a massage therapist? And he smiled with the smile that God willing only Erik had. And he said he loved that question. It was his favorite question. And he said, everyone of you out there, you're all muscle specialists, right? And we all said yes. And he said, so what you're going to learn is you're going to use the bone as a lever to get to the deepest part of that muscle tissue, which is the attachment. So don't ever let anyone tell you that what we're doing by mobilizing that joint and getting in and doing joint work is out of your scope of practice, because you are just using the bone as a lever to get to that attachment. And it just made such sense that I teach for him now, and when I open up my class, I write off the bat, tell people that right away,

 

Whitney Lowe  

yeah. And that was a real unique kind of strategy and approach, I think, that he had in doing that of and I think, like you said, very important in terms of the way it was blended from his background with structural integration and the osteopathic work and everything have seen it come together as a real important focus on soft tissue manipulation.

 

Tammy Mccue  

Yes, it was, yeah.

 

Whitney Lowe  

So maybe also quickly, can you give sort of an example of of how he impacted you personally. I mean, you've sort of talked about that a little bit, but anything else, I mean, you've spent a lot of time with him and working with him. What is that really meant to you personally, and how has it really shaped the way you work?

 

Tammy Mccue  

Without Eric, I wouldn't be where I am today. 20 years ago. I never thought I would be where I am today, and just being asked to assist him and to his assist him in workshops and in Oklahoma, that was just such a great honor. He's the most giving, caring individual I've ever met in my life. Give you the shirt off his back. I remember when he asked in 2019 he asked if I would step up and be a teacher. And I said, Sure. And he said, Well, I have some advice that I'd like to give to and I'm thinking, Oh, my God, advice from, you know, the maestro, the myth, the legend. And he said, when you start to teach, my advice is make sure when you go to the bathroom, you shut your mic off. I was like, That's it, but I died laughing. But that's the best part of Erik Dalton, if you've taken any of his workshops, he is the funniest man, and that when you learn things in a novel perspective like that, and you're laughing, your brain works, and you ex, you get it. It, and you can take it in. So I've tried very hard to be funny in my classes. I'll never, ever fill his shoes, but if there's one thing he taught me, is to just try to be yourself and try to be funny and be very caring and loving. Yeah,

 

Whitney Lowe  

I think that that is it in a nutshell about being yourself that really just makes so much of a difference of students really getting, getting the essence of who you are. And he certainly did that in a magnanimous way. He was himself, you know, the the funny and kind of goofy musician guy sometimes, and the other serious, you know, academic research or other times, that was certainly a way in which he embodied that. So Tammy, thank you so much for sharing some thoughts and feelings about Erik, and we all will miss him dearly. And I hope you will be able to keep carrying on a lot of what you've done with his work. And, you know, morph and change it in ways that will keep us all going forward here in the future.

 

Tammy Mccue  

Thank you. Whitney, yeah, I'd like to tell everybody thank you so much. You've all blown up the internet, and I've tried desperately to read every single message that everybody has written. From the bottom of my heart. I want to thank everybody, and I know he's up there. He never liked attention and learn he's getting it, but I know he appreciates it and

 

Whitney Lowe  

well deserved. Yes, indeed. Yeah, good. Thank you so much. See you, Tammy,

 

Art Riggs  

take care. Yeah. Hello. My name is Art Riggs. I'm a body worker and somewhat of a teacher and a friend of Til, a great fan of Til. So it's nice to be here. 

 

Til Luchau  

Nice to have you, Art. I'm we're getting together to remember Erik Dalton on the impact he's had on our field and on each of us personally, and we both knew him from the Rolf Institute, I believe. But I'm wondering if you have a story that exemplifies him, or some way he's impacted you personally, yeah,

 

Art Riggs  

well, you know, you mentioned that Til. I mean, he had a huge impact on me. You know, interesting. Since this came up, I've been inundated with emails from people just mostly expressing their shock, more than the sadness. Because I think the sadness may come later. I think that Erik had sort of a bigger than life personality where, you know, I just noone ever thought of him going away. And, you know, it's just, it's just sort of surprising. I'm actually consoled, as sad as this is, but he essentially died with his boots on, albeit swim fins, since he was working out, and he had that incredible energy right up to the end. And I think if he could have planned things, this would be what he'd done. I just can't picture him fading away and retiring, even though he told me for the last three or four years he was so, you know, I don't know when it was I'd known him, you know, in curling closeness for, you know, quite a while, and somewhere along that line, respect sort of evolved into veneration. I just, I just think he, he was a wonderful, wonderful person. Our friendship was somewhat limited. We talked bodywork and we talked sports. We emailed each other, I'd say, least once a week, mostly talking about the Warriors solving their problems, and, you know, making sure that Steve Kerr, who was a good friend of his, always invited him to the games and things. And we chatted about sports, just pretty much relaxed. I always planned. We talked about sometime getting together. He's going to come to the Bay Area unless does it like you do when you come. And then I could have gotten personal, but I really don't. I have many sides of his personality. I don't know. So I planned on asking himself, but never did you know. I think everyone knows his brilliance and his accomplishments. You know, 10s of, literally, many 10s of 1000s of folks have found a meaning for life with doing really great bodywork that is rewarding and gives them a self satisfaction, rather than just squeezing along in a, you know, a scripted massage and you just can't measure that. You know, you gave me an insight into Erik Dalton at one point I was I would talk to him, and I would give him a compliment on something he was doing. He says, Oh, that was horrible. I should never put that out. I can't believe I even did that. I don't even know why I try. Okay, and so I mentioned that to you, and you said, he just does that so the rest of us mortals don't feel so bad about what we do. And I think, no, you know, I think it was not false modesty. I really think that's really, really important, and that quality opened people up to learning and not feeling intimidated by his vast knowledge. You know, he just never showed much ego, and he just generally gave his knowledge to help others. Yeah, I don't think it was for fame. Of course, the money we all do bad but, but he was just just genuinely interested in helping other people with humility. And you know, you know humanity, generosity as well. Generosity for sure. You know, a lot of students are just sort of overwhelmed by great teachers, and nothing against those great teachers. But I think Erik almost felt awkward with the adoration that he had, and rather than sort of looking up to Mount Olympus, and now you hear students, oh, I could never do that. He brought Mount Olympus down to the students, and I think he was conscious about that. I think he passed along in his energy and curiosity to always grow so inside, aside for just the techniques, he just his being, his curiosity, his generosity, I think that's a gift that can't be quantified, but that was a huge, huge part of a very one quick, quick story. Fairly soon after I got to know him, I couldn't believe it, he came up to me at some massage meeting, and I knew who he was, and I wasn't going to go harass him with all the throngs, and he just came up in this warm way and introduced himself like nobody would know who he is. And just said, you know, I've really enjoyed reading your book and seeing your videos, and I really hope you, you know, he encouraged people. But one, one other small thing is that in his teaching, and you do this too, til he'll do something, and instead of look how great I am, he'll say, I learned this from somebody. He'll give credit to it. And he emailed me for some little technique that I showed this, like videos. And he said, You know, I really like that. Would it be okay if I taught that? And I like horse, you know. So, so anyway, that's that lucky you you got asked he would just announce to me, because til I'm stealing that, that's good, I'm stealing that, yeah, that he would still give it credit about that. That's yeah. Let me just say I think there's pretty much yeah, you know, I, you know, I tell one story, and I say this about you til, although your videos came out after mine. Yeah, I mean, it's the honest truth. I started, did this video, some people asked for it, and I didn't know what the hell I was doing. And I honestly think if I had seen Erik's videos, I would not have done a video. I mean, that's the honest truth. I would have been intimidated. Said, What the hell could I add to this? So I say, I feel I'm really lucky that I met Erik when I did after I got my videos, too. I think the only real specific impact is I can never imitate him. He and I teach differently. We have different goals. I say I teach what I do, touch and techniques so that people can apply that to the more sophisticated techniques that you and Til and Whitney and tons of other people do, but I say the only thing he did is he gave me the confidence to not imitate, but to emulate, not just his teaching style, but who he was. And it was just a great gift. He was, he was

 

Til Luchau  

the he was all those things you said, and more. Art Riggs, thanks for taking the time.

 

Art Riggs  

Hey, thank you. It's great. And thank you again for all your good work. Oh, likewise.

 

Til Luchau  

I look, I look forward to enjoying each other and Erik Dalton's legacy going forward. Okay, take it easy.

 

Paul Kelly  

Bye. Alright. My name is Paul Kelly, and I've been a therapist for about 30 years now. And I met Erik Dalton back in 1999 and started a relationship with him, and also a teaching relationship with him as well.

 

Whitney Lowe  

So Paul, I know you. Um. One of, like the key sort of people that was kind of first on the scene of doing a lot of work with Erik, teaching with him, in the videos and on the articles and the workshops and all that kind of stuff. So you really got an inside look at a lot of the things that he was doing in his work. So tell us maybe a little bit about your perception of the unique value of what his work was to our profession and how it sort of influenced you as well. Yeah,

 

Paul Kelly  

I think when I met Erik, I came from a sports medicine background at University of Tennessee, Exercise Science,  kinesiology background too. And so I went, what brought me to light with him was that he brought into the massage therapy field, muscles are levers to the bones. And that was his big thing, you know, talking about joints being levers to the muscles, and how we could activate the mechanoreceptors and open up joints and relax muscles and and so that whole osteopathic view that he came from, from Dr Philip Greenman, he brought that in, and that's what really lightened me up. I was like, you know, this really makes sense for me. This is something that is so applicable to this whole manual therapy industry. And so that's how that all started with me and him. And yeah, he really, and he really impounded that into the profession. He He ingrained it into profession. He wanted to raise the bar and let people know that there are a lot of things that we're not doing yet that we could be doing in as you can tell over the years, it's grown, and now it's mainstay in our profession. And so yeah, that was really one of the highlights for me. Is what opened my light bulb to, yeah, this is, this is good. I'm going to stay in this profession. Because at that time I, you know, as some people coming from maybe a college setting into the manual therapy fields, we were kind of like, this profession is missing some things, you know, and, and that was kind of what I was trying to bring, also with Erik and the videos and everything else was exercise, you know, that we needed to stabilize people. Stabilization is first, yeah, and then that creates mobility. And so that was and now we see that mainstay. So I really think that the compliment of him and I together, I mean, he just really inspired me to keep doing what I was doing, yeah,

 

Whitney Lowe  

you know, as an outside person looking in and watching the early development of the work that you two were doing together, one of the things that I did notice, and this is again, something very special about Erik, was that he was constantly learning. He was wanting to learn everything he could from every different angle. And I saw your influence a lot on him, also in terms of things that he would put, put out there and start talking about Exercise and Movement oriented things that I could tell this is something that had been, been an influence that you had had on him as well. So again, I just, I think that's that's not always as common to have people being so open to and receptive to learning things from other people, and then, you know, finding ways to incorporate that into his his style and methods that he was doing as well. He

 

Paul Kelly  

was really, and that's a great thing. He was real, open to others in learning, and to keep that open mindset, not so closed off to just his own belief system. And I think, and that's what we preach, you know, we preach that open mindset now. Don't get caught in your own ways. You know, in science changes, right? So we have to always be open. I love that about him.

 

Whitney Lowe  

Yeah, yeah. You worked with him so closely for quite a long time, and I was just gonna, you know, we're kind of wanting to find out from people, you know, getting different glimpses and different angles into who he was, who the person was, because lots of people know him as the the persona, you know, the visible persona out there. But can you tell us, maybe a little bit of example of how he impacted you personally throughout the work that you all were doing together,

 

Paul Kelly  

personally, you know, if you know Erik, Erik's a workaholic, so he impacted me that way. Actually, he pushed me, he pushed me into, you know, more of what he knew that I could be because he worked so hard and he was perfectionist at what he did. He loved advertising, he loved marketing, he loved the uniqueness of artistry in his work and in his videos. You know, he was an artist and and I, and it brought me to him too, as I am an artist too. I think body workers or artists of the body and I think the music side of him also was very present in things that he did. So, yeah, he was very eccentric, as, you know, at times, and off the wall and candid and, and that's another great storyteller. We used to always say, you know, you're an entertainer first, and then you're a teacher second, because he was a good entertainer, and I think that makes you a good teacher as well. Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of things that I took from him that, you know, I want to keep doing and pass on to others. He was funny, you know? It. You didn't know him very well, he'd get on those rants of laughing and he couldn't stop himself, you know, until he was crying and his face would turn red and get all blush, you know. And he was just, but yet, you know, he was really caring person too. You know, he would come alongside me on some times when I was doubting the industry still, you know, it was that. And it's interesting. And this is interesting, because I talked about this not too long ago, about how where we are now, you know where we are now, this long road, this long journey that we took, and how now look at where we are. This industry has grown and grown and grown, and we're right on par Now with what's going on out there. And I think that's that's a big credit to him, and I'm just want to help accelerate, also that movement platform that we have in this industry. I think that's a brilliant addition to us. So, yeah, he's influenced me. And, you know, he's, he's, even though he may be a workaholic, he really generally cares about people, you know, he, he generally care. He puts into you, and he wants something back. And I think that's okay, yeah, you know, as a good mentor, you should do that. You should have some expectations of your people that you're teaching. And yeah, he, I like that about him so hard, nosed man, just a driver. But gosh, you know, at the very end of the day, you could have a laugh with him and and goof off. Yeah, he

 

Whitney Lowe  

certainly, you know, in some conversations I had with him, he certainly did have a good sense of understanding how to get more people interested and motivated about their education. And I think what you brought up to the whole issue of him perceiving this as with the entertainment value of what he was doing is one of the things that brought so many people into his orbit. And, you know, that's, it's almost like, you know, there's, there's a shiny hook out there that that you got to get somebody hooked to recognize how much value is really innocent. And then, you know, get them to want to dig in and do that. And I think there's a lot of people in our field in particular, some of whom have some wonderful things to present and share, and they don't like the business and marketing side of things, right? And he really did. He really did have a way of making peace with that and sort of having fun with it. I think that, yeah, clearly shows the success that he had in getting getting the word out and getting the things doing that he was doing. So I think that's a great learning lesson for all of us in here that are still going to do this and hope to carry on some of the things that he exemplified for us absolutely.

 

Paul Kelly  

And I think, like you said, he was a master marketer. He had fun with it. He was unique. He was artistic about it. It's a hard industry. Yeah, it's hard to get the word out about what we're doing. And I think, you know, one things he had told me was that he he asked me one time, uh, Paul, what do you want to leave in this world, you know? And I said, you know, I just want to touch as many lives as I can, you know, that's what I want to do. And I said, What would you like to leave Erik? And he goes, I just want people to know about this around the world and so. And that's why that outreach was so important to him. And his Facebook page, he was on there constantly every second of the day, applying to people, talking to people, you know, and that's what it really takes. So, yeah. So

 

Whitney Lowe  

he definitely exemplified the ideas of engagement. There he was. He was clearly deeply engaged with everything he was doing, and showed a wonderful passion for it as well. So yeah, well, Paul, thank you so much for your kind words, or any thing else closing thoughts, or anything that you wanted to just leave us with last

 

Paul Kelly  

I think one of the big things that Erik had always stressed to me, and he stressed to everybody is to give credit where credit's due. When you're in this field, you know, we used to always say, you know, we're on the shoulders of all these giants that we've learned from. And that was a real important thing for him. And one thing that that he did in his videos, he would always quote the research. He would always tell the people who he learned from. And I just think, you know, for you know what I do, what you do, you know, just to credit people, to help others, know that, hey, we're building blocks. Each one of us is a building block, and we're learning from others. And yeah, Eric was, if I could remember anything about him, he was a man of his word on that, you know, he really preached that to other therapists. And so, yeah, and, you know, we're going to miss him. I want to miss him. It's crazy. When I found out about this, it was crazy. I was just thinking about him the day before it was his birthday. I was reaching out to him, and, you know, but he's still with us. He's going to be with us. So, yeah,

 

Whitney Lowe  

yeah, absolutely. Well, Paul, thank you so much for your kind words there, and keep doing the great work that you're doing. And he, again, has influenced all of us in so many different ways, and I hope to see you continue to filter that out and feed the seeds for us in our profession as well. So thanks again. So much. Thanks so

 

Paul Kelly  

much. Whitney. I appreciate you doing this. Okay, all right, bye, bye. And

 

Whitney Lowe  

again, we would like to. Thank all of our guests for the wonderful words they shared about Erik and his extensive legacy throughout our field. Here he done. He did, in fact, touch so many people, and just for us, the thinking practitioner podcast is supported by ABMP, the Associated Bod work and Massage professionals. ABMP member membership gives professional practitioners like you a package, including individual liability insurance, free, continuing education, quick reference, apps, online scheduling and payments with pocket suite, along with much more

 

Til Luchau  

ABMP ce courses, podcast, and Massage and Bodywork magazine always feature expert voices and new perspectives in the profession, including, there's probably a lot of articles by Erik Dalton in their library. Go check that out. I have articles in there, Whitney, you have articles in there. And thinking practitioner listeners can save on joining ABMP at abmp.com/thinking

 

Whitney Lowe  

and thanks to all of our listeners and to our sponsors, you can stop by our sites for the video, show notes, transcripts and any extras. You can find that over on my site at AcademyofClinicalmassage.com. And Til, where can they find that for you,

 

Til Luchau  

advanced-trainings.com, you when you go to that site, you're going to see some videos playing in the background. My son took those and just another little Erik story. Erik also brought me and my son to one of his big Oklahoma City confabs. And my son was just getting started as a professional videographer, film guy, and just loved the environment there of this big event, and crawled around taking pictures. And there's still, it's fun to see. There's still dozens of pictures on Erik's promotion Erik's site that Ansel took. And actually helped get Ansel started, too. He really some of that exposure. Yeah, that's excellent. Anyway, advanced trainings.com. Sees those videos, as well as Erik Dalton's site. You'll see those there too. We want to hear from you with your ideas or input about this show. Send us a message, or record a short voice memo on your phone and email it to us at info@ thethinkingpractitioner.com or look for us on social media. I am at Til Luchau, Whitney, where can people find you? 

 

Whitney Lowe  

And people can also find me on social every once in a while, under my name, Whitney Lowe. And also be sure to check out the wealth of resource that we have on rehabilitative massage on our YouTube channel as well, which is also under my name. And we'd really appreciate it if you would rate us on our podcast for on Apple podcasts and any other platform that you listen to, it really does other help other people find the show. So thank you very much for taking some time to do that, wherever you happen to listen. And so please do share the word tell a friend, and thanks so much for hanging out with us today. You probably hear that from every podcast you listen to, tell a friend rate us. It does make a difference. That's what makes this thing work. That's what makes us able to do that. So just take eight seconds, click the link in wherever you're watching and go just leave us a rating and make a comment. Love it. Thanks, everybody. Thanks. Whitney, sounds good. 

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